In the last interview I did I hinted that the practice of flipping startup websites for a quick and easy buck were over. I said buyers were demanding more these days. They wanted traffic and revenue and in an ideal world, they wanted both! After this interview with Michelle Adams, you’ll discover that I might be wrong. She is an experienced Internet Marketer who contends that flipping startup websites isn’t over – at least as far as she can tell. In fact, she just sold a startup website that had no traffic or revenue for $180.
Michelle talks to me about her Internet Marketing business, her general thoughts about flipping startup websites, and she talks about common challenges people new to website flipping have and how her ebook, VRED (Virtual Real Estate Development), can help them get started. If you are new to flipping websites and don’t have a clue where to get started, I highly recommend her book. It’s over 200 pages long and covers every aspect imaginable in the flipping process. It covers everything from niche selection to design and development to how to transfer websites after they are sold.
And yes the links to her book are affiliate links but I only promote and endorse products as an affiliate that I believe in. That being said, the intent of this interview is not to sell you on her book. The fact that she created an awesome product for newbie flippers is just icing on the cake. As someone who has sold over 50 websites, I primarily wanted to interview Michelle to get her take on the current state of flipping startups and to see if she had any words of advice for those new to website flipping. There’s some good stuff here – enjoy:)
FW: Michelle, thanks for taking the time to do this interview. You have an accomplished business background. In a nutshell, can you tell me about your background and how you got into Internet Marketing?
Thanks for the opportunity, Travis. My business background is in strategic business management, specifically in retail. I got into Internet marketing after I wrote my first ebook back in 2006, I went looking online for help on how to spread the word about it.
FW: When – and how – did you start flipping websites?
I started selling sites on SitePoint in late 2008 with a friend. She’d been asking me to work with her on it for awhile but I was too worried about some of the technical aspects so had avoided it. Starting out with her made things more comfortable as she managed the auction and so forth and I just dealt with building the web property. Having done that one flip, I realized that there wasn’t anything to be scared of so I continued on with it from there.
FW: How many websites have you flipped since then?
I’ve sold almost 50 sites, mostly all done in my spare time and not always sold at auction.
FW: Are you a regular flipper today?
No, I’m not flipping regularly right now. I primarily build and manage my own sites. Flipping is a spare time/spare cash option for me.
FW: There are some (me included) that say the days of throwing together a “pretty” website with no traffic or revenue and expecting a $200-$300 payday are over. It’s just not as easy and lucrative as it used to be. Buyers are demanding more value. They want websites with traffic or revenue or both. Do you agree or disagree?
I’ve seen some sellers recently attracting final bids around the $180 to $270 mark so I wouldn’t say it’s dead. I successfully sold a site in May for $180 that was pretty much a startup, zero traffic and earnings. That being said, I have seen some reasonable sites not sell through that in the past I would have thought would sell easily so yes, I agree it’s not as easy.
If what you say is indeed true, that lower-end buyers are now expecting traffic and earnings for the same dollars, then they will find sellers already meeting those demands. These buyers would be well advised though to study in detail how the lower-end sellers have generated the much desired traffic and earnings. I’ve seen sites that have been held for a few months and sold with traffic and earnings that had come about suddenly in big spikes. I’d be wary of buying a website like that but it’s no surprise they’re popular with buyers. I’m not saying they’re all bad, buyers just really need to do their due diligence and weigh up risks with any site they’re considering investing in.
FW: I’ve noticed those listings too – the ones where the site just launched but somehow they already earn $2,000 per month and generate thousands of unique visitors. A red flag immediately goes up. Buyers definitely need to verify everything before they buy – no matter what the price of the website.
What would you say are the biggest challenges to selling startup websites – and what would you advise people getting into the business do to overcome those challenges?
I think one of the biggest challenges is for people to resist the temptation to take a lot of shortcuts and to only focus on themselves and their short term final bid price. Some buyers have bought from me several times. They’ve recommended me to others and they’ve requested custom orders because I’ve over-delivered and considered things from their perspective not just mine. Think beyond the initial sale as it can bring opportunities outside of marketplaces such as Flippa, which can in turn reduce the cost of sales.
In my ebook, VRED, I talk about this in a variety of ways and it covers in detail how to build solid foundations into a site. Another hurdle can be the site transfer but that’s normally a fear that can be put to rest after doing it only once or twice and I cover transferring a WordPress blog in the ebook too.
FW: I want to ask you some questions about your book so I’m glad you brought it up, but before we dive into that what would you say are the most important steps to “master” when it comes to website flipping? Is it niche selection, content creation, design…what is it?
I believe it’s all of those things. I’m often found to be talking about ticking as many boxes as possible to appeal to a variety of buyers. I’ve had a buyer purchase a site just for the niche selection and design and they dumped the domain. I’d thoroughly researched to find a good search phrase and available exact match domain and it was thrown away. The site appealed to that particular buyer for a different reason to the person who has bought several sites from me based on the research I did into the main keyword phrases/domains.
I’ve had other buyers purchase because they had sites in the same market and were building a network and others buy only for the content, others buy because the site has ticked every box and still others buy for different reasons again! You never know who is shopping for what I guess is what I’m trying to point out here so I suggest mastering many aspects not just one.
FW: You mentioned your ebook – VRED (Virtual Real Estate Development): Learn How to Build & Sell Niche Blogs. You were kind enough to forward me a review copy. I have to tell you, I was impressed. This is a nuts and bolts ebook on how to build, sell, and transfer websites. It’s just a little over 200 pages and covers virtually all steps of the website flipping process. What inspired the creation of it and what has the response been like?
Thanks Travis. VRED itself is about developing web property in all manner of ways. It focuses specifically on a method of building niche blogs with the intention of selling them at Flippa. It was inspired by many things, one of which was the many requests from people asking me how I built the sites I did, how I customized them and pulled together the overall look and feel. Another was people needing a step-by-step guide that didn’t leave out one single instruction so they could venture into their first few site transfers with more confidence.
The response has been great. I gave out a handful of review copies before I released it and the feedback was similar to yours in that practically every step is there within the 200 odd pages. I know how overwhelming something new can be and to have to search the web to fill in pieces of the puzzle would only stall people so my aim was to cover every step which I think I did. Some people expected the book to also teach how to build a WordPress theme from absolute scratch which I don’t know how to do and some still felt overwhelmed by the technical aspects. Overall though the book has been very well received.
FW: VRED is geared specifically towards building and selling niche WordPress blogs. In the book, you recommend premium themes and specifically the Woo Themes. Why WordPress as a general platform and why Woo Themes?
I’ve just found WordPress works best for niche blogging, updates are quick and easy, plugins are everywhere for just about any function you can imagine so I teach what I use myself. As far as the themes, I spotted SuiteJ’s designs on Flippa actually and he inspired me to take a look at Woo, their themes are quite something and the fact they had a support forum really meant a lot to me as I knew I would need help at the outset to learn how to customize certain elements. As I mention in the ebook, though, the sooner sellers differentiate and put their own unique touch to their offer the better.
FW: As you stated in your book, the purpose of the book was to show someone how to build, sell, and transfer websites by themselves with little to no investment and with no outsourcing. This ebook definitely does that as you go into incredible detail on everything from design and color palettes to creating your own headers to customizing your WordPress themes to monetizing your sites and transferring them after you sell them.
A person following your book could certainly go from A to Z by themselves with very little investment. However, the learning curve could be rather large for some people and let’s face it, some people may have a little extra money to outsource some of the steps. For those people who do have some money to spend, what step (or steps) of the process would you recommend people outsource?
That’s difficult to answer because I think it depends on the skills they already posses. I can design a header graphic in a few minutes but if someone else can’t they need to sit through my 18 minute video tutorial on using GIMP just to begin to learn it, so perhaps if they can afford to outsource they could get a header designed for $10-$20. If they’re terrified of the site transfer then perhaps that is their best choice of what to outsource. So where they lack the most skill would be where I’d suggest they start with outsourcing if they don’t want to master those aspects themselves.
When it comes to outsourcing, though, if someone can “afford” it today they also need to be certain that they can afford not to recover those costs immediately. It’s a fact that not every site will sell and they need to recognize that they may well end up having to start marketing the site to get it to recover its costs and earn its keep so to speak and of course it could be sold down the track with traffic and earnings or kept.
FW: The primary focus on VRED is flipping startup sites. Do you have any plans to follow up VRED with another product on how to hold websites for a while and market them to build traffic and revenue prior to selling?
I mention in the final section of the ebook that selling startup web sites is just the tip of the ice berg and that if people take the time to develop their web property to a stage where it’s well established with traffic and earnings then they could move to trading in the established market. I’d always planned to help people move beyond startups and also to share generally what I know about the many different ways to develop virtual real estate which I will be doing mostly on the VRED blog at http://www.VredVoice.com.
FW: Thanks, Michelle, for the interview. You’ve shared some insightful tips here today. Best of luck to you and all your future endeavors!
Thanks again for the opportunity, Travis, you asked some great questions and I enjoyed sharing my views with you and your readers! 
